In this episode of Third Place, we continue further on our detour from the COVID-19 pandemic to delve deeper still into the ongoing protests against the killing of George Floyd while in police custody in Minneapolis, MN. However, the pandemic is still in the background and is still very much a part of this discussion which became our 11th installment in the COVID-19 Series on 3dP. For this interview, we spoke with James Rucker, co-founder of Color of Change and a son of Louisiana "once removed." During this interview, we take a hard look at Camden, NJ's experiment with disbanding their police force, we contrast calls for abolishing or defunding police with those calling for systemic police reform, we question the role of police unions, ask whether this marks an "inflection point" for race relations in America and examine how the pandemic has shaped this international reform effort.